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关注微信公众号&>&&>& > 外国网友评论：金庸中国武侠小说
外国网友评论：金庸中国武侠小说
&&sukitc Posted 30 December 2008 - 03:44 PM&I am looking to upgrade my reading material and am looking into potential kung fu novels. I have read a few, but all Thai-language translations. From memory, &The Condor Hero& and &Li，s Flying Dagger - Xiao Li Fei Dao& were good. But, do you guys have any personal favorites?&Also, most of the famous ones were written in the s (I think), so will the language be very difficult? Do you guys have any recommendations for kung fu novels written recently?&Many thanks.&我在琢磨着整点新阅读材料，武侠小说我看行。我看过一些，但都是泰语言译本。我记着《射雕英雄传》，《小李飞刀》还不错。你们最喜欢哪本？&此外，名篇都写于50〜60年代（我认为），那语言得挺难吧？劳驾推荐一下最近的武侠小说？&非常感谢。&&&外国网友评论：&&&&Javer Chen Posted 30 December 2008 - 05:01 PMTalking about Kungfu novels, I like this topic. Jinyong(金庸) is definitely the best and the most popular Kungfu novels writter ever. all his books are masterpieces with many chinese traditional cultures and wonderful stories included. but I think you may have read his books like 天龙八部,笑傲江湖,鹿鼎记 and etc. they are all my favorites. Wen rui an is the most famous Kungfu writter after Jinyong, but I just finished a few his books and swear never read his books any more. because I think it，s too sucks. but maybe you will like it, who knows. you may have a try if you have time.:D武侠小说的帖子，我喜欢。金庸绝对是最NB最流行的武侠作家。他的书全是杰作，有许多中国传统文化和精彩的故事。你可能已经读过《天龙八部》，《笑傲江湖》，《鹿鼎记》等等，都是我的最爱。温瑞安是继金庸之后最有名的武侠作家，但他的书我只看过很少一部分，并发誓永远不再读。因为太尼玛烂了。但也许你会喜欢，谁知道，有时间可以一试。&renzhe Posted 30 December 2008 - 10:22 PMI，m reading Jin Yong，s Legend of the Condor Heroes right now and I，m enjoying it (as did you). Many people feel that Jin Yong is among the best wuxia writers out there.But it，s hardly easy from a language point of view. You should have a good grasp of at least 3500 characters and a decent vocabulary to read his novels in original, at least that has been my experience. The 60，s are not a problem, but lots of classical-style language crops up, lots of chengyu and bookish language.我在读金庸的《射雕英雄传》，我也很喜欢。很多人都觉得在武侠作家中，金庸出乎其类。但从语文的角度看却很不容易。我的经验，至少认得3500个字，单词量得说得过去才能读他的小说。 60年代神马的不是问题，但古典语汇，像成语和书面语很多。&Lu Posted 30 December 2008 - 11:20 PMI，m also reading Jin Yong, it is great (I have no comparison, never read any other kung fu novels), but not easy.我也在读金庸，NB（没法比较，没读过其他武侠小说），但不容易。&Javer Chen Posted 31 December 2008 - 09:33 AMQUOTE : I，m reading Jin Yong，s Legend of the Condor Heroes我在读金庸的《射雕英雄传》Legend of the condor heroes is 射雕英雄传 in Chinese?Legend of the condor heroes 是《射雕》？&renzhe Posted 31 December 2008 - 10:46 PMCorrect, that，s the translation I，ve most often seen.对，这个译本最常见。&character Posted 31 December 2008 - 11:52 PMQUOTE : I，m reading Jin Yong，s Legend of the Condor Heroes right now and I，m enjoying it (as did you).&But it，s hardly easy from a language point of view. You should have a good grasp of at least 3500 characters and a decent vocabulary to read his novels in original, at least that has been my experience. The 60，s are not a problem, but lots of classical-style language crops up, lots of chengyu and bookish language.我在读金庸的《射雕英雄传》，我也很喜欢。很多人都觉得在武侠作家中，金庸出乎其类。但从语文的角度看却很不容易。我的经验，至少认得3500个字，单词量得说得过去才能读他的小说。 60年代神马的不是问题，但古典语汇，像成语和书面语很多。What do you use to help figure it out? Fan translation?你借助什么整明白？坊间翻译？&renzhe Posted 01 January 2009 - 12:07 AMI used to rely on a fan translation a lot (there，s a great one here：http://www.spcnet.tv/forums/show ... hooting-Hero-Book-4) when I was first starting, but I found that I needed it less and less, and now I don，t consult it at all anymore. Every now and then, there is a formulation that I don，t quite get, but it almost never interferes with understanding the story.&最初，我相当依赖坊间翻译（这个很强：http://www.spcnet.tv/forums/show ... hooting-Hero-Book-4），但越来越不必借助这个，而现在我不需要了。有个提法我一直没弄明白，但基本不影响理解。&Outofin Posted 01 January 2009 - 01:46 AMTranslation? It was joked in school by my English teacher, &How would you translate 化骨绵掌?& The name by itself tells a palming technique that every seemingly soft touch can dissolve one&s bones inside.I like 笑傲江湖. It was the first wuxia novel I read and still is my favorite. I think Jin is pretty good, perhaps better than George Lucas. I don&t mean Jin Yong&s works are with great literature values but Lucas is overrated. So they&re like of same level to me.&Another famous wuxia writer is 古龙, who had a very different if not opposite personality of Jin Yong. Gu Long&s works are much easier to read. Their qualities vary a lot. Some are very boring and worthless. He sometimes shamelessly stole ideas from western detective stories.翻译？我英语老师笑了，&化骨绵掌怎么翻译？&字面意思是一种掌法，看似阴柔，却能化骨于无形。大爱《笑傲江湖》，是我读的第一部，也是最喜欢的一部武侠的小说。我认为金NB的很，也许比乔治卢卡斯还NB。不是说金庸的作品文学价值NB，是卢卡斯被高估了。所以，我认为他们同级。另一个著名武侠作家古龙，与金庸风格迥异，甚至相反。古龙的作品更易于阅读，水准参差不齐，有些很无聊，毫无价值。有时还无耻的剽窃西方侦探小说的点子。&yersi Posted 01 January 2009 - 02:32 AMI took a look at Legend of the Condor Heroes and while it，s tough it，s definitely not impossible if you have some background in classical Chinese. I think I，ll make reading through it a project for this spring.我瞜过一眼《射雕》，是很难，但如果你有一些古汉语背景，也不是难到完全没辙。立项了，今春读它。&xiaocai Posted 04 January 2009 - 10:29 PMFor me there is no such thing as the best kung fu novel. The styles vary from author to author, and even for the same author you would notice the changes in styles through time. Personally I would go for 金庸&，s works, especially 天龙八部 and 笑傲江湖, definitely worth a try if you are into 射雕英雄传.对我来说，武侠小说没有最好。作者风格各异，即使同一作者其风格也随时间变化。我向《射雕英雄传》读者推荐金庸，尤其是《天龙八部》《笑傲江湖》，绝对值得一试。&&&sukitc Posted 05 January 2009 - 10:19 AMThanks for all the suggestions, guys. Outofin, as per below, could you recommend any novels by this author?&Another famous wuxia writer is 古龙, who had a very different if not opposite personality of Jin Yong. Gu Long&s works are much easier to read. Their qualities vary a lot. Some are very boring and worthless. He sometimes shamelessly stole ideas from western detective stories.&感谢诸君的建议，Outofin，你说&另一个著名武侠作家古龙，与金庸风格迥异，甚至相反。古龙的作品更易于阅读，水准参差不齐，有些很无聊，毫无价值。有时还无耻的剽窃西方侦探小说的点子。&该作者都有哪些小说？&Javer Chen Posted 05 January 2009 - 03:39 PMmost famous novels by Gulong are here: 白玉老虎,楚留香,七种武器,边城浪子,三少爷的剑,小李飞刀..............depict his novels， style in one word? cool.古龙名篇：白玉老虎,楚留香,七种武器,边城浪子,三少爷的剑,小李飞刀..............其风格一言以蔽之，酷。&sukitc Posted 05 January 2009 - 03:46 PMThanks, Javer.Yes, 小李飞刀, I，ve read it before but in Thai-language translation. It was many years back, but I remember it to be very cool, as you said. Will try to read it in Chinese.谢谢Javer看到小李飞刀了，我以前读过泰语译本。多年以前了，我却还记得，确实酷。我要读原版。&kangkang Posted 21 February 2009 - 04:46 AMIn my opion, there are 3 greatest wuxia(kongfu) novel wirters:#1 Jing Yong(金庸): He is the first well-known and accepted wuxia writer, he only wrote 14 wuxia novels, but everyone of them is classic! his style is tradtional chinese novel style.My recommendations: 射雕英雄传/神雕侠侣/天龙八部/笑傲江湖/鹿鼎记/倚天屠龙记#2 Gu Long(古龙): His style is totally diffrent from Jing Yong and other wuxia writers, there are a lot of suspense and deduction in his book.My recommendations:多情剑客无情剑(小李飞刀)/绝代双娇/楚留香传奇/陆小凤传奇/欢乐英雄#3 温瑞安: His style is like 古龙+金庸, all his book are in same 江湖(wuxia world), you can find same character in his diffrent books. his imagination is unbelieveable. his books are much more fancy than others.My recommendations: 四大名捕系列(series)/神州奇侠系列(series)/七大寇系列(series)窃以为，有三大家：#1 金庸：第一著名，最喜闻乐见的武侠作家，只写了14部武侠小说，但都是经典！其风格承袭中国小说传统。推荐：射雕英雄传/神雕侠侣/天龙八部/笑傲江湖/鹿鼎记/倚天屠龙记#2 古龙：风格迥异于金庸和其他武侠作家，悬念迭起。推荐：多情剑客无情剑(小李飞刀)/绝代双娇/楚留香传奇/陆小凤传奇/欢乐英雄#3 温瑞安：风格是古龙+金庸，他所有的书都在同一个江湖（武侠世界）里，他不同的书里有相同的人物。想象力匪夷所思。他的书比别人的更奇幻。推荐：四大名捕系列/神州奇侠系列/七大寇系列&&&jawshoowa Posted 03 March 2009 - 11:50 PMFrom the perspective of a student of Chinese language, 古龙 offers the advantage of ease of reading. I would recommend starting with him just to get a feel for some of the specialized language of the genre. It is very straightforward, modern Chinese, despite the ancient setting.Be prepared, however, for his overly emphatic style. Lot，s of this sort of thing: &There was no one in the world who could beat his Super-Duper-Whirlpool-Lightening Sabre technique, no one, that is, except (insert heroe，s name)&. It is pulp fiction all the way, chock full of violence, one liners, and cliched amateur philosophy (&There are only two types of men in this world, those that become ill at the thought of violence, and those for whom violence has become an addiction more powerful than any drug.& -- I，m making this up, but that，s the sort of thing you run into a lot). All in all, it is fun if you simple enjoy it as campy fiction. He does provide some interesting plot twists, but I find that they are not so compelling for me as they seem to be for many Chinese fans, perhaps because I already guessed that it was coming, or because it was so out of left field that it was completely implausible. At the same time, he nails some very poetic phrases with sufficient frequency to make it seem worthwhile. The books definitely have atmosphere.&Well, the point here is to recommend books, so I recommend 流星蝴蝶剑. I tried a couple of the other famous 古龙 novels before and since, but that is the only one I really got into.As for other Kung Fu novelists... I feel that 温瑞安 borrows heavily from 古龙 without the poetry and atmosphere. I admit I haven，t read him cover to cover, but that is just the problem, I can，t seem to get hooked.金庸 is still too intimidating for me, though my attempts have left the impression of a masterful storyteller.Currently I am really enjoying a book by 卧龙生 titled 飞燕惊龙, which is in a psuedo-classical style, though not nearly as dense as 金庸. I，m 100 pages in and the plot is quite gripping, and he develops the atmosphere well. The emotions of the characters seem real enough. My only concern is that I have heard he has a reputation for not finishing as well as he starts. I am a deathly slow reader, so perhaps I can report back in 6 months or so...&从汉语学习者的角度来看，古龙的优势在于易读。我建议从他开始，获得一些特别文体的语感。古代故事，现代汉语，简洁痛快。但是要做好准备，他的风格过于鲜明。很多这样的段落：&天上地下，没人能当他惊鸿一击，除了（插入英雄大名）&。它以&低俗小说&的模式，充满暴力，废话，和陈词滥调（&世上有两种人，一种人视暴力为穿肠毒药，一种人拿暴力当救命良方& &&我编的，但你肯定会遇到大量同类句型）。总而言之，如果你只是单纯的享受阅读快感，还是很有趣的。他制造了一些有趣的曲折，但我觉得不怎么吸引人，因为对我这样的汉语爱好者来说，情节太容易预见，或者过于出人意料，不真实。与此同时，语带意境，很有气氛。重点是推荐书，我推荐《流星蝴蝶剑》。我前前后后看过几本古龙，但只有这一本我真正钻进去了。至于其他武侠作家......我觉得，温瑞安师法古龙过头，却没有古龙的意境和氛围。我承认他的书我从未竟卷，但这正是问题所在，没法吸引我。金庸把我吓住了，看不懂，只有个高超的说书人的印象。目前，我在看卧龙生的《飞燕惊龙》，风格仿古典，没金庸那么浓重。读完了100页，情节扣人心弦，很有气氛。人物的情绪似乎不够真实。据说他开写之时并没有构思结局，我有点担心。我读书死慢，6个月后见&&&&&Shadowdh Posted 04 March 2009 - 12:56 AMAre these books easily accessible on line or does anyone have a doc or txt file for them?求txt&sukitc Posted 04 March 2009 - 09:05 AMJawshoowa: Thanks for your input. Yes, after doing some research, everyone seems to agree that Gu Long is the best place to start, in terms of simplicity.I have therefore taken my first stab at a Gu Long novel 七星龙王 and I must admit that it is indeed not too difficult to read, and fairly enjoyableMy plan is to complete a few more novels by Gu Long like 小李飞刀 then move on to Jin Yong. But, again, as you said, the transition is said to be quite daunting (for a non-native Chinese reader). So, Jin Yong could a project for 2010.&&Jawshoowa：感谢。经调查之后，看来大家都同意，就简单性来讲，先从古龙开始最好。而且我必须承认，我看了第一本古龙《七星龙王》，不难，相当欢乐我的计划是再多读几本古龙像《小李飞刀》然后转向金庸，但如你所说，过渡相当困难（对于非母语读者），因此金庸大约会是2010的计划。&jawshoowa Posted 04 March 2009 - 05:29 PMI，m with you man. 金庸 in 2010!You should be able to find most of the classics online somewhere, but the link I had seems to have expired. Good luck digging them up!兄台，同看同看，金庸2010！最经典网上有，但我的链接已过期。找找吧，祝捷！&imron Posted 04 March 2009 - 06:40 PMSee this post for links to 金庸 novels. However it，s worth pointing out there are slight differences between the online versions, and the most recent print versions that I，ve seen. 金庸 has updated his own works a couple of times, so the differences might be related to that, or they might be due to poor efforts at typing them in.金庸小说的链接，请参阅这篇文章。然而要指出，在线版本与我见过的最近的印刷版本之间有细微差异。金庸已经几次更改自己的作品，差异可能是因为这，（网站）懒得重新录入了。&renzhe Posted 04 March 2009 - 08:26 PMIf you，re planning to read this stuff in 2010, you should definitely buy a paper version of the books.Books are very cheap in China, even for non-bootleg stuff. My Jin Yong novel was about 10 Euro in Shanghai, and reading 1400 pages online is an exercise in masochism. It，s worth the 10 Euro.如果你计划在2010年开始，一定要听哥的购买印刷版本。即使非盗版，中国书价也非常便宜。我在上海买金庸小说才10个欧，并在网上阅读1400页纯属找虐。10欧太值了。&skylee Posted 04 March 2009 - 08:34 PMOr you can borrow them from a library. Don，t know about the mainland or other places but there are lots of Jin Yong novels in libraries (public libraries and school libraries) in HK.你还可以从图书馆借阅。不知道内地或其他地方，香港公共图书馆和学校图书馆有很多金庸小说。&Javer Chen Posted 05 March 2009 - 10:02 AMalmost all universities， libraries keep Jin Yong novels in mainland.内地几乎所有大学图书馆都有金庸&&OldBender Posted 10 March 2009 - 02:15 PMWell it kind of depends on your language skill.Jinyong，s novels, like the condor hero, often tell stories based on real history backgrounds, contain a lot of real histroy heroes(like Genghis Khan in condor hero) and stories, and Jinyong also likes to build a very complex Kongfu theory system in his novels, and he combines kong-fu with Chinese philosophy like Yi Chin and sometimes old Chinese religions like buddhism and taoism, so you may want to learn some knowledge of the fields above in order to get a better understanding of his novels.Gulong，s novels, on the other hand, tell less complex stories and the language is also easier--at least the grammar is easier,and the sentences are shorter than in Jin，s novels, sometimes the words are very meaningful in the context but at least you won，t have too much trouble reading them.So if your Chinese is great and you wish to learn more about Chinese culture and history as well as Chinese kong-fu, pick up a Jin Yong，s book, if you want to choose a reading material to improve your Chinese, you may want to start with one of Gu Long，s book, and yes, flying dagger would be a nice choice.PS, don，t worry, most pieces from 50-60，s were written very normally and correctly, like textbooks, so you possibly won，t have trouble understanding them. The stories written nowadays, especially those published through the internet, however, well, let，s just say we don，t recommend those to beginners(not even to Chinese children).取决于你的语言水平。金庸小说，如《射雕》，通常基于真实的历史背景，包括很多历史上真实的英雄（如《射雕》中的成吉思汗）和故事，金庸乐于在他的小说中构建一个非常复杂的武学体系，融武术于传统哲学，像《易经》、佛教和道教等。因此，为了得到更好地理解他的小说，需要了解一些上述领域的知识。另一方面，古龙的小说，故事不复杂，语言更容易&&至少语法比较容易，句子较短，有时上下文中对话意味深长，但不会有太多阅读障碍。因此，如果你汉语很好，想了解更多中国文化和历史以及中国武术，看金庸；如果想选择材料提高汉语水平，读古龙，《小李飞刀》是一个不错的选择。PS，不用担心，50-60年代的用语很正常、正确，像教科书，理解无困难。而时下的，尤其是那些网文，只能说不推荐给初学者（包括中国儿童）。&Javer Chen Posted 12 March 2009 - 10:17 AMQUOTE : let，s just say we don，t recommend those to beginners(not even to Chinese children).只能说不推荐给初学者（包括中国儿童）。&I can，t agree on this point. I think it，s a great idea to let Chinese children start to learn traditional chinese culture and traditional chinese literature with reading Jin Yong，s books .His words is a little traditional but also a little modern, not hard for Chinese to understand. there are also chinese cultures(Weiqi,tea culture,wine culture,food culture,Daoism,Confucianism and Buddhism and etc) and even history knowledges included in his books. Each story told by him is masterpiece, is wonderful. it can attract children，s concerntration and cause their interest too.I think it，s a good idea to teach chinese children chinese traditional culture start with Jin Yong，s books.:lol:不敢苟同。我认为让中国的孩子通过读金庸开始学习中国传统文化和中国传统文学是一个好主意。他的语言传统又现代，对中国人来说不难。他的书中包含中国文化（围棋，茶文化，酒文化，饮食文化，道教，儒教和佛教等），甚至包括历史知识。都是佳作，可以吸引儿童，引起他们的兴趣。我认为从金庸小说开始，教中国孩子中国传统文化是一个好主意。&&OldBender Posted 12 March 2009 - 10:23 AMWell, I，m sure you are right, but that，s not what I was saying. Read carefully WHAT KIND OF THINGS I don，t recommend children to read and you，ll understand my statement.你说的对，但牛头不对马嘴。请仔细看看我不建议孩子阅读什么。&mph Posted 12 March 2009 - 08:35 PM金庸小说是非常有趣。我推荐入手买中文和英文翻译。The Book and the Sword (书剑恩仇录) - published by Oxford University Press。有很多功夫术语是千难万难翻译的而且数不胜数的成语。香港本来繁体的版本是更好的。金庸小说非常有趣，我推荐入手汉英对照版。《书剑恩仇录》，牛津大学出版社有很多武学术语难以翻译，成语也数不胜数。香港繁体原版更好。&&&&carlo Posted 13 March 2009 - 10:32 AMI actually think Gu Long is fun. The analogy with pulp fiction may be not too far off. Or something like those early American science fiction stories from the ，40-50s with ten-foot spiders and princesses from the stars. Jin Yong is more literary, which sometimes may get a bit too heavy handed IMHO. A suggestion: as a student of Chinese don，t get the pirated version of Jin Yong，s books, or the typos will drive you mad.After Jin Yong I，ll probably try Water Margin/Outlaws of the March, the language is not much harder, and it，s a real classic.我觉得古龙实在是有趣。 &低俗小说&的比喻虽不中亦不远。有点像美国早期科幻故事，40-50年代那种10尺蜘蛛和外星公主之类的东西。金庸更文艺，恕我直言有时太过文艺。一个建议：汉语学习者不要买盗版金庸，错别字会把你逼疯。打算看完金庸看水浒，语言并不更难，却是真正的经典。&Javer Chen Posted 23 March 2009 - 03:07 PMQUOTE : After Jin Yong I，ll probably try Water Margin/Outlaws of the March, the language is not much harder, and it，s a real classic.打算看完金庸看水浒，语言并不更难，却是真正的经典。Carlo, shake hands. I totally agree with you on this point. Water Margin is my favorite classic novel. Then, I think 白门柳 is also good.:)Carlo，握下小手。完全同意。水浒是我最喜欢的经典。我觉得《白门柳》也不错。）注：《白门柳》，刘斯奋著，获得茅盾文学奖。明末故事，复社、秦淮八艳、满清、大明、无耻的投降、毅然的抵抗，中国气派，人民立场，三观端正，荡气回肠。难得的佳作。推荐诸君一读。&zozzen Posted 12 April 2009 - 02:43 AMQUOTE : let，s just say we don，t recommend those to beginners(not even to Chinese children).I can，t agree on this point. I think it，s a great idea to let Chinese children start to learn traditional chinese culture and traditional chinese literature with reading Jin Yong，s books .&只能说不推荐给初学者（包括中国儿童）。不敢苟同。我认为让中国的孩子通过读金庸开始学习中国传统文化和中国传统文学是一个好主意。&You raise an interesting question. What，s the level of proficiency when we compare adult advanced learners and children? In terms of learning hours, a 10-year-old boy should take more than most ，advanced learners， who may possibly spend only 3 years to become &advanced&. In terms of learning curve, i never think that adults really has much more advantages than kids if we talk about language.Is a beginner able to read jin yong，s ? I，m not sure. The first time I read it was at my age 11---- in another word, I，d spent 11 years in learning chinese, but i couldn，t get all the words and concepts in the novel. The difference is that kids tend to accept more unknowns. I didn，t bother to make a huge task of checking up every word in the dictionary, while most adult learners feel uncomfortable with this.你提出了一个有趣的问题。当我们比较成人学习者和儿童的熟练程度，标准何在？在学习时间方面，多数&高阶的学习者&可能只花3年就能成为成为&高阶&，而一个10岁的男孩会花更多时间。在学习曲线方面，如果单说语言学习，我从来不认为，成年人真的比孩子更有优势。初学者能读金庸吗？我不知道。我第一次读它是11岁，换言之，我花了11年学习汉语，但我不能把握所有词和概念。不同的是，孩子们倾向于接受更多的未知。我没查字典去弄清楚每一个词，而大多数成人学习者不喜欢含糊过去。&&&calibre2001 Posted 02 May 2010 - 03:01 PMQUOTE : You raise an interesting question. What，s the level of proficiency when we compare adult advanced learners and children? In terms of learning hours, a 10-year-old boy should take more than most ，advanced learners， who may possibly spend only 3 years to become &advanced&. In terms of learning curve, i never think that adults really has much more advantages than kids if we talk about language.Is a beginner able to read jin yong，s ? I，m not sure. The first time I read it was at my age 11---- in another word, I，d spent 11 years in learning chinese, but i couldn，t get all the words and concepts in the novel. The difference is that kids tend to accept more unknowns. I didn，t bother to make a huge task of checking up every word in the dictionary, while most adult learners feel uncomfortable with this.你提出了一个有趣的问题。当我们比较成人学习者和儿童的熟练程度，标准何在？在学习时间方面，多数&高阶的学习者&可能只花3年就能成为成为&高阶&，而一个10岁的男孩会花更多时间。在学习曲线方面，如果单说语言学习，我从来不认为，成年人真的比孩子更有优势。初学者能读金庸吗？我不知道。我第一次读它是11岁，换言之，我花了11年学习汉语，但我不能把握所有词和概念。不同的是，孩子们倾向于接受更多的未知。我没查字典去弄清楚每一个词，而大多数成人学习者不喜欢含糊过去。&I，m actually reading 书剑恩仇录 now. I agree that If I learnt chinese as a kid and read this book at age 11 I probably wouldn，t get everything in the book BUT I would still at least know what，s going on and skimp on the details. Eventhough I can read the book fairly ok without needing to resort to a dictionary much, I still have the following problems:-still can，t skim through ，like I can English-，reading， the characters/words and not sure what，s going on i.e. lost in the story-I can，t take more than say 10 pages in an hourThe 11 year old kid wouldnt have these problems实际上，我在读《书剑恩仇录》。我同意，如果我是一个11岁的孩子，我大概不能把握书中的所有内容，但至少我能明白讲了个什么事，不求甚解。尽管我读书无需过分依赖字典，还是有以下问题：仍然无法像读英语那样一目十行- &读&字词，却把握不了意义一个小时读不了10页11岁的小孩不会有这些问题&eatfastnoodle Posted 04 May 2010 - 01:21 PMjinyong, gulong are usually considered the two best Wuxia novelists. After 1998, Huang yi joined them as wuxia novelists with the biggest influences, though he，s widely considered, even by his supporters, to be a bad writer when it comes to intricate literary expression of love and all other emotional endeavors highly prized in literature. That said, his influence everything after him is unprecedented and simply couldn，t be ignored (he，s really good with what would be called &big scenarios&, namely, scenarios involving war and peace and all these political and military intricacy usually more associated with romance of three kingdoms than wuxia novels, beside Jinyong, he，s the only one I know who is comfortable handing BIG events, events that don，t only impact &this boy loves that girl& kind of, allow me to say, petty cliches.&), anyway, after him, there were a bunch of really good writers who attempted to write good wuxia novels, (江山如此多娇 is good, it，s also much much more NC-17 than most of the idiotic officials in charge could understand, as a result, it doesn，t have an end. It is still good, though.). Most of them didn，t manage to finish what they started, though金庸，古龙通常被称为武侠小说双璧。 1998年后，黄易入围，尽管当涉及到爱情和高贵情感的复杂文学表达时，就连他的支持者，也认为他功力不够。这就是说，他的影响力空前，不容忽略（他擅长所谓的&大场景&，即涉及战争与和平的场景，这些复杂的政治和军事场景让人更容易联想到《三国》而非武侠。金庸之外，他是唯一一个我知道的能轻松驾驭宏大叙事的武侠作家，这可不是&男孩爱女孩&之类的&&请允许我说&&鸡毛蒜皮的的陈词滥调）。无论如何，在他之后，涌现出一批真正的好武侠作家（《江山如此多娇》挺好，但是17禁，2B官老爷们看不惯，因此烂尾了，但还是不错的。），大部分都是坑。。。&calibre2001 Posted 08 June 2010 - 07:40 PMYou guys might like this.Jin Yong books in audio form! I think this will be really good listening training material for the learners.http://www.verycd.com/topics/420214/亲们，好东西。金庸小说音频！绝对是上佳的听力资料。&http://www.verycd.com/topics/420214/&&&&Guoke Posted 08 June 2010 - 09:38 PMGulong，s wuxia novels can be found here:&古龙小说全集古龙小说全集&Jane_PA Posted 25 July 2010 - 11:15 AMI like Jin Yong too! I have read all of his novels. I particularly like 神雕侠侣.我也爱金庸！我看过他的所有小说。大爱《神雕侠侣》&Gleaves Posted 09 January 2011 - 08:30 AMI finished up Sentimental Swordsman, Ruthless Sword (多情剑客无情剑) by Gu Long a little bit ago. I enjoyed it... somewhat. The over-arching plot just wasn，t that interesting, but it was easy and there were plenty of great moments. I was just a little disappointed it wasn，t more epic. I have actually seen &小李飞刀& （the main character，s famous technique) mentioned once or twice outside of the book, so it has been very cool to make that kind of connection.My question to the wuxia experts here: if I only barely liked Sentimental Swordsman, should I expect any different from other Gu Long works? Or are they all pretty similar?不久前我看完了古龙的Sentimental Swordsman, Ruthless Sword（多情剑客无情剑）。我很喜欢....有点。总体的情节不是很有趣，但它是很容易，有很多好桥段。我有点失望，更波澜壮阔一点就好了。我在书外见人提到过&小李飞刀&（主角的绝技）一两次，这种带感的联系非常酷。武侠专家，我的问题如下：如果我只是勉强喜欢《多情剑客无情剑》，我应该指望其他古龙作品有什么不同吗？还是说都非常相似呢？&skylee Posted 09 January 2011 - 05:21 PMI don，t read Gulong，s books. I think I might have read one or two, and disliked them so much that I gave up completely. On the other hand I have re-read Jin Yong，s (almost all of them) many times. Like many people I started reading them when I was young in pretty much the same circumstances as zozzen. The problems (if they are problems) with Jin Yong，s works are that 1) it is very difficult to stop once you have started -& dar 2) the long ones are really better than the short ones, which aggravates problem 1.If you would like to try reading Jin Yong and would like short ones, I recommend the two on the flying fox.我不看古龙的书。我可能读过一两本，不喜欢，就完全放弃了。另一方面，我多次重读金庸（几乎所有小说）。和许多人一样，我开始阅读时候非常小，情况和zozzen差不多。金庸作品的问题（如果算是问题）是，1）一旦开始就爱不释手-&黑眼圈；2）长篇比短篇好，加剧了问题1。如果想读金庸，短篇我建议《飞狐》。&imron Posted 09 January 2011 - 05:47 PMQUOTE : 多情剑客无情剑I，ve not read any of Gu Long，s stuff, but I have to say, I really like that title :D&&没读过古龙，但是我必须说，我喜欢这书名-----------------------------------------------------------------------Gleaves Posted 10 January 2011 - 12:50 AMThanks, Skylee. I have Flying Fox on my shelf, so I，ll give it a try. I，m going to get to the longer ones at some point. I suppose it is a good problem to have too much to read.QUOTE : I，ve not read any of Gu Long，s stuff, but I have to say, I really like that title没读过古龙，但是我必须说，我喜欢这书名I really like when titles of books/movies show up in the actual book/movie. It was very satisfying to finally here a character say this title. imron - I see you have a bunch on Jin Yong planned for this year. 加油.谢谢Skylee。我书架上有《飞狐》，我会看的。但我还是想找点长篇。太多阅读选择也是个问题。我是标题党。imron，我看你今年计划看一堆金庸。加油。&imron Posted 10 January 2011 - 07:05 PMYep, my (long-term) plan is basically to read all his works, going by the order they were written. At the same time though, I also want to balance that out with other genres, so it，ll be a bit of Wuxia, and bit of something else, a bit of Wuxia, a bit of something else, and so on.没错，我的（长期）计划基本上是读他的作品，按照写作的顺序。同时我也想花插着其他类型，武侠，别的，武侠，别的，类推。&&&&Gleaves Posted 25 May 2011 - 09:00 AMI just finished up Jin Yong，s 雪山飞狐. I got a big kick out of it. It was a collection of three short novels - 雪山飞狐， 鸳鸯刀， and 白马啸西风。 I found 雪山飞狐 quite tough. You have a bunch of people telling flashback stories that overlap, span a lengthy amount of time, and sometimes contradict. And then it ends on a major cliffhanger, but I still liked it. 鸳鸯刀 was hilarious. It reminded me of 武林外传 a little。 I liked 白马啸西风 the best. It was only a hundred pages, but it was pretty easy and packed in plenty of plot. It got a little Scooby-Doo at the end, but was still a cool story. It feels good to finally read/enjoy some 金庸. I was a little worried after Gu Long that kung fu novels were just not my thing.I have 射雕英雄传 on the way, so I will probably start tackling that pretty soon. If I should be reading something else first, let me know.我刚刚看完金庸的《雪山飞狐》。扯着蛋了。它是三个短篇的合辑&&雪山飞狐、鸳鸯刀、白马啸西风。雪山飞狐相当难。大量重叠的闪回故事，跨越了漫长的时间，时有矛盾。然后以一个大悬念结束，但我还是喜欢它。鸳鸯刀滑稽，让我联想到《武林外传》，我最喜欢《白马啸西风》，只几百页，很容易，情节丰富。结局有点《史酷比》化，但仍然是一个很酷的故事。读/享受一些金庸感觉很好。我担心以后古龙不是我的菜了。《射雕英雄传》在邮寄途中，很快就要开读。如果应该先读点别的东西，告诉我。&rob07 Posted 25 May 2011 - 07:36 PMCongratulations Gleaves!I thought it was pretty cool the way it was literally a cliffhanger ending. What do you think, 他这一刀到底劈下去还是不劈？Were you planning on reading the prequel to 雪山飞狐？ I didn，t feel the need to after finishing 雪山飞狐 but maybe I should since I，m not sure what 胡斐 would do. Still, I think I，m probably satisfied with there being no answer.恭喜Gleaves！悬念结束很酷。你怎么想，他这一刀到底劈下去还是不劈？你打算阅读前传《雪山飞狐》？我不觉得有必要，但也许我应该读，因为我不知道胡斐会做什么。不过，我想大概没有答案更好。&skylee Posted 25 May 2011 - 09:08 PMDon，t you just like 苗人凤? Don，t you just like how Jin Yong tells a story?No objection to your starting 射雕, but after that you might want to also read the other two novels of the trilogy ... 12 books in total, and you might get addicted, and spend the whole night reading, etc ... :PIf you do start the 射雕 trilogy, try to pay a bit of attention to these supporting roles - 穆念慈 (射雕), 郭襄 (神雕), 张无忌, 殷素素 and 张翠山 (倚天).But perhaps you should consider reading the other 胡斐 novel first?你不只是喜欢苗人凤？你不只是喜欢金庸讲的故事？不反对你的开始读《射雕》，之后，你可能想看三部曲的其他两部...共12本书，你可能会上瘾，并挑灯夜读.. ：P读射雕三部曲，要十分注意这些配角&&穆念慈（射雕），郭襄（神雕），张无忌，殷素素和张翠山（倚天）。但是，也许你应该考虑先阅读另一本有关胡斐的小说？&Gleaves Posted 25 May 2011 - 10:13 PMI am impressed with Jin Yong as a storyteller. I expected lots of cool fighting and dramatic romance, but there is also plenty of subtle parts and humor.I am a little concerned that 射雕 is a trilogy (because reading all three books would take me a long, long time). I think I might cheat and read 射雕, then watch a TV series for each part of the trilogy. I like 胡斐, but I am not sure if I am up for 飞狐外传 right now. I just feel the urge to jump into something different.Rob - I have to think不劈. But that is somewhat biased because the other two stories I read have strong themes of mercy. I think if I read 飞狐外传, I could easily change my mind. I think I，m also content that there is no answer. Just the fact that he gets the choice is the ending.金庸作为一个说书人给我留下了深刻的印象。我预计会有许多很酷的战斗和传奇，也有许多微妙段落和幽默。我有点担心，射雕是三部曲（读三本书将占用很长很长的时间）。我觉得我可能要偷奸耍滑，读《射雕》，然后看电视剧了事。我喜欢胡斐，但我不确定要不要现在看《飞狐外传》。我有种换换脑子的冲动。Rob，我觉着&&不劈。但是可能有所偏颇，因为我看过的另外两个故事，有强烈的慈悲主旨。我想如果我读飞狐外传，可能很容易改变主意。我还是满足于没有答案。选择就是终结。&&&renzhe Posted 26 May 2011 - 02:15 AMDon，t worry about the trilogy. There are very few characters in common between 射雕 and 神雕, and even fewer with 倚天屠龙记, which takes place much later. 射雕 is enjoyable enough on its own and rounded off as a story.You can do what I did, and read 射雕 then watch the other two as TV dramas, though books are obviously better than the TV series.别怕三部曲。《射雕》和《神雕》没几个相同的人物，到了更晚的《倚天屠龙记》更少。《射雕》完成度很好。你可以像我一样，读《射雕》，另外两个看电视剧，虽然书显然比电视连续剧强。&&&&
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