德国联邦有哪些现在的政体

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  【quora】Why is it that alot of Chinese people don't feel oppressed by their regime?
  为什么很多在中国人在他们的政体下不感到被压迫?
   是美国版的知乎,汇聚了来自世界的精英学者、行业专家。这个网站上有一些关于中国的话题非常有趣,经常有一些外国小白问一些偏见满满又十分脑残的问题――如本题,然后被网友们打脸甚至群殴的事情,比中宣部的战斗力大概高100的1000次方倍吧,呵呵,不说了,我得给克强同志打个电话先。
  问题:
  I've known only a few Chinese people who were abroadfor study/work (expats excluded), and most of them didn't feel oppressed atall.
  On the contrary, one in particular, was very happyabout it, and he felt that the government was a great help to the population.
  How is that possible?
  Edit (1 month and 33 answers later):
  Thanks everybody for the answers. Some were morehelpful than others, of course, but that's how it goes.
  Just one addendum: stop counselling me to come visitChina and see for myself unless you want to sponsor the trip for me, as I don'thave the spare cash right now.
  Thanks.
  我只认识少数几个在海外工作或学习的中国人,他们大部分完全没有感受到压迫。
  相反,特别是其中一个人,对政府感到非常高兴,他感到政府帮了国民很大的忙。
  这怎么可能?
  编辑(在1个月内得到33个回答后):
  谢谢所有回答的人。有一些人的答案比别人更有用,这是当然的,事情总是这样。
  只补充一点:请不要再建议我到中国去亲眼看看了,除非你愿意赞助我,因为我现在没有足够的存款。
  谢了。
  Lucas Karl Hahn
  268 upvotes by Naiwei Li, Xun Wang, Shijia Wei, (more)
  You have to look at it from their perspective.
  你要从他们的角度看问题。
  China had a really bad 150-200 years until around the year 1980. Inthe mid-nineteenth century it experienced foreign occupation, a Taipingrebellion where millions died, and starvation, all at the same time. Then thedynasty collapsed in 1912, and China was carved up by warlords. The 1930s and1940s saw simultaneous civil war between the CCP and the KMT as well asJapanese occupation with the attendant war crimes (i.e. Rape of Nanking, massbeheadings). It then got unified under the Communist Party in 1949 and somehoped for a lasting peace but then the Communist Party became radicalized. Theresult was the Great Leap Forward, where some tens of millions starved to deathbecause of harebrained ideas such as making steel in your own backyard furnace.The 1960s and 1970s saw upheaval, power struggles and the Cultural Revolution.It quieted down a bit in 1980.
  在1980以前的150到200年间,中国的日子相当不好过。19世纪中期它同时经历了外国侵略,导致了上百万人死亡的太平天国,以及饥荒。1912年军阀割据时代的到来,使它彻底倒塌。30年代和40年代,同时发生了国共内战和抗日战争,日本在中国犯下了可怕的战争罪行(即南京大屠杀)。1949年它被CCP统一,那时人们渴望过持久的和平,但不就后CCP却变得很激进。其结果就是大跃进,在这期间因为一些脑抽的想法,比如在你家后院的锅里炼钢,让千百万人饿死。60年代到70年代它又经历了动荡,权利斗争和文革。1980年一切终于平息了一些。
  China then saw double-digit growth for 3 decades, bringing tens millions outof poverty. That is why authoritarianism is tolerated, because material needsare being fulfilled.
  之后中国迎来了30年的两位数增长,让千百人脱离了贫穷。这就是为什么独裁主义被人们忍受,因为物质需求得到了满足。
  Think about their reference points. They probably don't compare their nation asmuch to other countries as they do to China's past. And right now things aren'tas bad as they were 50 or 100 years ago. Ronald Reagan asked the Americanvoters in 1980 &Are you better off than you were 4 years ago?& andproceeded to win the election against incumbent Carter, because the answer wasclearly &No.& If the CCP were to ask the Chinese people &Are youbetter off than you were 40 years ago?& the answer would be a resounding&Yes!& (though there is some nostalgia for socialism).
  想想他们的角度。也许与把国家拿去与其他国家比较相比,他们更愿意与中国的过去比较。如今不像50年或100年前那么糟糕。里根总统在1980年问美国选民:“你们与比4年前更好吗?”,因此打败了时任总统卡特,因为答案明显是“no”。如果CCP要问中国人“你们比40年前更好了吗?”答案会是一个响亮的“yes”(尽管也有部分对社会主义的怀念)。
  These reference points make the current regime look good. The Chinesetolerate a strong central government because they fear the two evils of civilwar and foreign dominance.
  这样的视角使现在的政体看上去很好。中国人容忍一个强大的集权政府,因为他们恐惧两个恶魔――内战与外敌
  China's economic growth cannot continue indefinitely at these rates. It willslow down, and see decades of slow growth. While a person who can remember 1970or 1980 or 1990 will see a huge difference between then and now,eventually ageneration of Chinese people will be born who have seen little change in theirmaterial status during their lifetimes. This will lead to impatience with theCCP and a greater assertiveness in demanding political reforms.
  中国经济的增长速度不可能一直如此快速。它最终会慢下来,然后经历几十年的慢增长。当如今的人还能记得或1990年的不同时,最终会有一代中国人会生在慢增长的年代,他们一生中只会感到他的物质水平只有一点点变化。这最终会导致对CCP的不满,和xxxx(译注:太反动了不敢翻自己看)。
  Once people reach a certain level of income, they will care about&postmaterial& needs such as good governance, a clean environment,the rule of law. So the current regime will be transformed either way:if growth continues the people will eventually want other things as well, andif it stagnates they lose their popular support.
  当人们的收入达到一定水准时,他们会更关心“上层建筑”,比如好的政府,干净的环境,法律。所以现在的政体无论如何都会转变:如果增长持续着,人们最终会想要点别的东西,如果增长停滞了,他们将失去民众的支持。
  Shijia Wei, Chinese learning more about China
  436 upvotes by Domenico Matteo, Eric Pan, Roy Peng, (more)
  Judging from your profile I guess you are German. TheGerman news is in particular critical of the PRC and the CPC and often portraysthem in a negative light. Even when there are some compliments, it's usuallyfollowed by some criticizing remarks. The funny thing is, while Germanjournalism resents China for its CPC one-party system and governmentrestrictions on the press, German business is fond of China as a profitable newmarket, so the German politics is stuck somewhere in between.
  从你的资料来看我猜你是个德国人。德国新闻对PRC和CCP尤为苛刻,经常从负面去描写他们。即使有一些恭维,那也是阴阳怪气的。有趣的是,当德国记者在鄙视一党制和政府对媒体言论的限制时,德国商人却非常爱这个利润巨大的新市场,所以德国政客正陷在两难之中。
  Notice how all three parties are concerned with their own perspectives andstandpoints, but what about Chinese people who are actually living in China?The feeling is mixed. Many Chinese have seen their own situation improved frombeing poor to being well-off to affluent and seen China's internationalposition risen from the lowest pit to an important global player. They creditthis to the Chinese government and want them to keep on doing this goodwork.
  注意这三方面各自站在自己的视角和立场,那么真正生活在中国的中国人怎么想?想法是复杂的,混合的。许多中国人看见了自己从贫穷变为富裕,看见了中国的国际地位从屁都不是到举足轻重。他们把这些功劳归给了政府,并希望他们继续保持。
  (正文过长,删除部分英文原文)
  同时,也有很多社会问题,比如贪腐,污染,法律不健全,贫富差距拉大,没有特权的平民因为社会公益服务的缺乏或盈利目的而被忽略。有些人指责政府做的不够好,但也有人希望这些会因为进一步的发展和改革变好。有人说,这些问题是经济急速发展造成的不可避免的结果,就像发达国家曾经经历过的那样。也有一些异见人士认为,推翻CCP是最好的解决办法,但目前这种激进的想法在中国并不是很吃香,许多中国人更倾向于循序渐进的提升。这一部分原因是政府打压异见人士,如艾XX,胡X,这些人虽然是德国媒体眼中的大红人,在中国却没人鸟;另一部分原因是中国人害怕失去国家和自己的家庭已经得到的东西,他们更愿意在现行体制的规则下来提升生活品质,而不是革命。
  (正文过长,删除部分英文原文)
  总的来说,一般的中国人更多关心的是如何在当前的政治环境下提高自己的经济地位而不是推翻这一体制。即使当人们不满时他们也更多的是关注他们不满意的现实问题(如对腐败、污染、不扩大的贫富差距以及一些特权阶级问题的忽视),而不是对政府或政治整体表示不满(至少在公共场合是这样)。中国当前的这一代人对于改革抱有很大的耐心,这是因为他们看到暴力革命推翻政府给普通百姓带来的灾难(注意,中国的媒体在这点上起到了促进作用)同时近三十年的改革也使普通家庭获益。最重要的是,当今中国工作竞争非常激烈,在家人或同伴的压力下努力去实现中国人(或大多数人?)理解的成功――成家立业。所以并没有太多的空闲时间去思考政治参与政治活动,也没有精力去承担(寻求?)这些风险。
  (正文过长,删除部分英文原文)
  西方媒体塑造的那些中国人受到压迫哭着要民主的形象,并不是真的。有人确实希望民主,但他们把它保留到未来,当国民水准已经达到有更多政治需求的水平时。尽管政府努力减少影响,还是有不少国民知道,一些糟糕的事情发生了。但很多人要不然就麻木的接受现实,要不然还是盼望着,未来这些情况会逐渐改变。人们对猛然转入民主体制度是否会带来好处并不是很确信。许多中国人对民主如何改变社会现状,或对他们有什么好处,或民主到底是如何运作的,只有一个模糊的印象。一个普遍的见解是,政治家的工作就是去解决社会问题,这样没有力量去改变什么的普通中国人就不需要花时间去思考政治了。跟他们讨论经济吧,那个对政治冷漠的中国人会马上生龙活虎的跟你讨论中国的经济发展。
  (正文过长,删除部分英文原文)
  P.s. 许多中国人确实不喜欢网络和媒体的限制,因为这些直接影响到了很多人。但仅靠这些是无法带动anti政府潮流的。想一想“这一切都会过去的”,便会让他们忘了这些不方便。
  (正文过长,删除部分英文原文)
  中国政府努力而高效,巧妙地提高了国民的生活品质。
  中国宪法限制国家元首的任期为5年,最多连任一届。虽然不是一人一票的民主制,但中国的体系与压迫百姓的独裁天差地别。
  I visited China first in 2006 after listening to years of western commentary onalleged Chinese repression. In China I was able to walk anywhere and talk toanybody. I watched Chinese English language television and saw many opencriticisms of the Government on some programmes.
  我在听了许多年西方媒体那套说辞之后,于2006年第一次拜访了中国。在中国我可以到处走动,和任何人说话。我看中国的英文电视台,有很多节目公开批评政府。
  The Chinese government has brought 600 million people out of poverty and hungerand given them good housing, clothing and education. All this in three decades.Nothing as beneficial to humanity has happened in the history of the world.It's no surprise Chinese people support their government.
  中国政府让6亿人脱离了贫困和饥饿,给了他们房子,衣服和教育。完成这一切只用了30年。历史上再也没有比这更有益于人类的事了。中国人支持他们的政府一点不让人吃惊。
  Edward Conway
  (正文过长,删除部分英文原文)
  如果你的政府让几亿人脱离了贫穷和饥饿,过上了体面的生活,你会感到被压迫吗?
  尽管PRC会犯错(所有国家都会犯错),他也让中国人的生活得到了巨大提升。
  想想过去:1940s,日本侵略中国,还有中国的内战。
  然后中国参加了朝鲜战争,失去了很多生命。
  然后是文革,年轻人到处批斗,逮捕任何不够崇拜Mao的人。
  这才是真正的压迫:人们害怕失去生命。
  之后,事情逐渐变好了。让成千上百的人死亡的饥荒呢?再也没有了。在内战时期随意杀人的暴徒呢?再也没有了。
  让我们接受这个事实,如果你的收入在十年之内翻倍,你的国家在急速发展,你会感觉受压迫吗?
  Oliver Lee
  13 upvotes by Joseph Boyle, Emmetxu Emmetxu, Ivan Cc, (more)
  I was born in Countryside and both my father andmother are farmers. When I was 7 years old, we only have one Television coloredin black and white, one bicycle with huge size, a house without bathroom. Iwent to college and got a job after graduated. Now we have colored TV, Motorcycle, refrigerator, washing machine, we built a new house. Besides, I have abrother and a sister. Let the truth speaks, even through China did somethingwrong in the past, but have your countries ever did something good to us?
  我出生在农村,我的父母都是农民。我7岁时,我们只有一台黑白电视,一架大单车,一栋没有浴室的房子。我上了大学,毕业后找了一份工作。现在我们有了彩色电视,电摩托,冰箱,洗衣机,我们建了一栋新房子。另外,我还一个妹妹和一个弟弟(译注:或哥哥姐姐)。让事实说话,即便这个曾经对我们做了一些错事,但你的国家对我们做过什么好事吗?
  Vernon William Baumann
  8 upvotes by Chengguang Liu, Graham Lyons, GwydionMadawc Williams, (more)
  (正文过长,删除部分英文原文)
  1.问问你自己,“中国人真的被压迫了吗?”你所知道的关于中国人的一切都是被那些西方操控着的媒体灌输的(顺便说一句,大部分媒体都只被6个集团拥有)。除了中国人不能在网上搜索天X门事件和一些其他的媒体限制,政府要如何压迫他们的日常生活?如果在美国,我在公众论坛,网上或其他方式说我支持基地组织……我大概要担心是不是要被铺了。就只是因为说了这句话。所以谁才是真正被压迫的呢。爱国者法案(考虑到持续监督公众论坛和其他侵犯人身自由的行为)让美国人成为世界上最受压迫的人。所以谁才是真正被压迫的呢?
  2. Eastern culture, as a whole, is far morecollectivist and hive-centred than western culture, which is predominatelyindividualistic. Chinese people are far more willing to make personal and othersacrifices for the sake of the greater whole, China and the Chinese government,in this case. So that alone makes them less likely to revolt against theirgovernment.
  2.相比西方文化中的个人主义,东方文化总体来说更强调集体主义。中国人比西方人更愿意为集体――这里是中国和中国政府――做出个人的或其他的牺牲。所以这让他们不太可能去反感他们的政府。
  3. The Chinese economy is still the world's fastestgrowing economy (I speak under correction). In tandem with this, the militaryand diplomatic might of the Chinese government is growing in leaps and bounds.In addition to the US and Russia, China is also the only other genuine playerin the space race.
  3.中国的经济增长速度依然是世界最快的(这个说法有待纠正)。与此同时,军队力量和外交力量也急剧上升。另外,美国、俄罗斯和中国,是世上仅有的三个真正的太空竞赛玩家。
  The government is obviously doing a stellar job. Sowhy would you have a problem with a state like this, as a citizen? Rather, itwould engender pride as opposed to anything like revolt. Wouldn't you agree? Iwould be proud of a government like that, I assure you. I live in South Africa whereour president built a $20 million mansion at the tax payer's expense and earnsthe world's fourth largest salary as a political leader. And yet, together withBrazil, we are the country with the largest disparities between rich and poor.
  政府显然做的很一流。所以作为国民,你为什么要对这样的国家产生怀疑?相反,这只会激发自豪。你不同意吗?我会对这样的政府感到骄傲,我保证。我生活在南非,我们的总统用2亿美元的税金,建立了一座大厦,他的工资是世界元首中的第四位。然后,和巴西一起,我们是世上贫富差距做大的国家。
  So tell me, would you feel oppressed in a country likeChina ... if you were a Chinese citizen? I would feel only gratitude ... andpride...
  所以告诉我,为什么作为像中国这样国家的国民,你要感到被压迫?(译注:我也不知道呢,问问港灿和湾湾吧,他们好像知道。)如果是我,我只会感到感激……和自豪……
  4. The US has been policing and controlling the worldfor the last half a century. China is slowly moving into this position. I don'tfear Chinese hegemony at all. I think the US did a terrible job as WorldPoliceman. I don't China could, in any way, do a worse job. So yeah, my twoYuan's worth...
  4. 美国在过去的半个世纪一直掌控着世界。中国正在逐渐抵达这个地位。我一点不害怕中国的霸权。我认为美国做世界警察做的很糟糕。我不认为中过会搞砸。好了,我这两元值了。
  William Emmanuel Yu, Chief Nerd.PHB and PHD.
  7 upvotes by Greg Kemnitz, Adrian Ho, Kuan Kiat Chew, (more)
  It is because we have a difference of values. The mostobvious one is freedom of speech and expression.
  这是因为我们有不同的价值观。最明显的就是看待言论自由的问题上。
  Folks outside of China value this freedom and consider it essential in modernsociety. We consider it unthinkable to not have it. However, the Chinese (andeven some other South East Asian countries) have made the trade-off to haveless freedom of speech and expression for societal security. This meansgenerations of Chinese didn't grow up with it and don't consider it essentialto everyday life. They simply don't put the same value on it as we do.
  中国以外的人视自由为重要价值,认为它是现代社会的基本需求。我们认为那是不得不需要的。但是,中国人(甚至一些东南亚国家)用言论自由去交换了社会安全。这说明几代中国人的成长过程中没有经历过它,不认为它是生活的必需品。他们不像我们那样重视它。
  In their view, Freedom of speech just isn't as fundamental as food, water andshelter compared to us.
  在他们看来,言论自由不像我们认为的那样,和食物、水和庇护所一样是生活的基本需要。
  Tony Li 3 votes (show)
  Put another way, the Chinese teach the concept of Harmony. This conceptis higher on their scale of importance than Freedom.
  换言之,中国人被教导和谐的概念。他们认为这个概念比自由更重要。
  Lung Ko
  If you had to let go just one thing among food, shelter, water, andfreedom of speech, which would you give up?
  如果你要放弃食物,庇护,水和言论自由中的一样,你会选哪个?
  Jianguo Shi
  In fact, the freedom of speech is only limited in paring the online comments in China and the US, you will find the speech inChina is more open and bold, or freer.
  事实上,言论自由只是在某些方面被限制。拿中国网络上的言论与美国相比,你会发现中国的言论更加开放大胆,或者说,更自由。
  Sean Bard
  3 upvotes by Lin Lishi, Scott Hoversten,and Xu Xu.
  For the most part, normal Chinese people tend not tocare or pay attention to politics as long as their life is getting better yearafter year.
  只要普通中国人的生活一年比一年更好,他们就不会关注政治。
  Marshall Drew
  (正文过长,删除部分英文原文)
  我感觉我很缺乏有关中国VS美国在意识形态,经济原则和政治方面的信息。不过,我是个美国人,我曾经抱着同样的看法到吉林去旅游。当我与我的寄宿家庭聊天时,我也问过他们同样的问题,同时开始令人讨厌的斥责他们的政府扭曲历史,告诉他们这个政府多么的邪恶。他们一点不了解和关心他们的政府。作为餐厅营业者他们似乎没怎么受影响,税收、强制执法和西方国家的生活似乎并没有影响到他们。过了一阵子后,我也有这种感觉了。我没有看到任何强制执法和国家特工,他们并不干预普通人的生活。我不敢说我的经历能代表吉林,更别说中国其他地方,但是这是我对为什么那里没有很多异见人士的解释。
  Tim Durkin
  11 upvotes by Domenico Matteo, Gary Raduziner, Joseph Boyle, (more)
  (正文过长,删除部分英文原文)
  大部分中国人不感到他们被政府压迫是因为大部分中国人没有被政府压迫。
  除非你是一个宗教异见人士,或者anti人民共和国的少数民族,或者民主活动者,你不会被压迫。你也许要忍受审查机构,少了一些经济自由,不能对政府采取强力的行动,不过你得看看,这世界上哪个国家的公民在这些领域里是完全自由的。
  虽然中国政府在这些方面的干涉和监管比西方更多一些,但中国也给他的国民在私生活方面更多的空间,收更少的税。
  Barry Thompson
  4 upvotes by Naiwei Li, Graham Lyons, Lin Peng, (more)
  Out of all the governments in the world China's ispretty successful. China has experience amazing growth and development and isvery, very stable. They have freedom! Sure they have problems, but show me acountry that doesn't. Democracy won't solve any of China's problems. All you'llget is 5 minutes of people thinking this is great, then they'll soon realisethat they just got 1 or 2% more freedom in exchange for loosing any stabilitythey had and they can watch as the economy crashes. There are lots of democraciesout there with some serious problems, far greater than China's. But people inthe west stumble to think up of an excuse for them.
  Another point I'd like to make is that the actual day to day freedom differencebetween the west and China is nothing worth while noticing. The freedom in thewest is blown out of proportion. Often times it's a trade off, between certainfreedoms. There are lots of things you can do in &unfree& countriesthat you can't do in &free& ones.
  在世界所有政府当中,中国政府算是相当成功的。中国经历了令人惊人的从成长,而且非常、非常稳定。他们有自由!他们当然也有问题,但你告诉我哪个国家没有。民主不能解决中国任何一个问题。也许前五分钟人们会想,民主真棒,但很快他们会意识到,他们能多得到1%或2%的自由,但因此却牺牲了他们拥有的稳定。当经济崩塌的时候他们就会看到。这世界上有许多麻烦多多的民主国家,他们的问题比中国大的多。但是西方人总是固执的为他们找理由。
  另外我还想说一点,日常生活中中国人和西方人的自由根本没什么差别。西方的自由只不过在吹牛逼。它常常是一个在不同自由之间的交易。有很多事情,你可以在“不自由”的国家做,但不能在“自由”的国家做。
  Joseph Schooling
  1 upvote by Edward Conway.
  Because they are not oppressed. Simple.
  因为他们没有被压迫。就这么简单。
  Shunki Kan
  7 upvotes by Susan Wang, Qing Lian, Yaqian Wang, (more)
  As a foreigner, I can image the majority of theChinese people you may know, they are students, or graduated students wholiving in a foreign country. They have ulmost no self-dependent livingexperiences in China. Some of them are offspring of China's elites and they arebeneficiaries of the current regime. I mean, how can they know the truedarkness of the Chinese society and how the poor Chinese people feel?
  作为一个外国人,我可以想象大部分你认识的中国人,他们是生活在国外的大学生或研究生。他们几乎没有在中国独立生活过。有一些人是中国精英的后代,他们是中国现任体制的获益者。我的意思是,他们怎么会了解中国真正的黑暗面,中国的穷人是怎么想的?
  Warren Schenck
  I don't feel oppressed by my regime and yet they areoppressing me. In the US. our government has been oppressive for all of its history.I still believe that it is wonderful to live here and I would never moveanywhere else. The Chinese believe the same thing about their own government.The Chinese know the government might not be perfect but their doing their bestfor the people.
  The only criticism I have for the Chinese government is that when theineptitude of the system was displayed for the world to see. When faultyconstruction of schools caused thousands of children to die in the earthquake.The Government tried to cover it up rather than admit it made mistakes andwould commit to putting rules in place to make sure that things like this wouldnever occur again. You see at least here in the US. when mistakes are made theresponsible people are not always brought to justice but rules are put in placeto make it so that mistakes will not happen again.
  我不觉得我的国家体制在压迫我,虽然它确实在这么做。我们的美国政府在历史上一直是压迫的。但我依然相信这里是美好的,并且不打算搬到任何其他地方去。中国人也是这样相信他们的政府的。中国人知道政府虽然不是完美的,但他们为了自己的人民在尽最大努力。我对中国政府唯一的批评是,当政府失职时,他们应该让全世界看到。在地震中,上千个孩子因为豆腐渣工程死掉。政府试图隐瞒,却不承认错误,并制定规则保证这种错误不再发生。在美国,至少当政府犯错时,并不是责任人都会得到审判,但一定会制定防止这种错误再次发生的规则。
  Petr Misan, Investor, Scientist, AmateurPhilosop... (more)
  The same reason Americans believe that their countryis democratic.
  -- because of ideology.
  跟美国人相信他们的国家是民主的同一个理由 ―― 因为意识形态。
  Anonymous
  1 upvote by Joseph Boyle.
  Likely because they are all educated to be patriots.Patriots never feel oppressions. Instead the harder the country treats them,the prouder they are, as they can feel the power of the country vividly..
  Of course it works even better when people can have the pride without feelingthe pain, like Chinese people living abroad.
  很可能是因为他们都被教育为了爱国者。爱国者从不感到压迫。反而,国家越强势的对待他们,他们就会感到越自豪,这样他们会生动的感受到国家的力量。
  如果只感到自豪,而不用去承受痛苦当然就更好了,就像生活在外国的中国人。
  请支持独立网站,转载请注明本文链接:/8526.shtml
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